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Post by §ilvercell on Oct 23, 2005 5:25:20 GMT -5
NOOOOO!
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Post by fosforito on Oct 23, 2005 11:06:57 GMT -5
Oh sh++!!!!!!!!!
Azina I have to say it again!!!
Maaan..
Jon - a murderer?? Well, he could be - in his own way. But the emotions you put in for Syler are so real, so human and because of this - totally believable!!
*exalt for you, Azina*
And I´m sure it was Syler who fell on the floor, I don´t think, Jon is dead.
He may be injured due the shot but I think he´s not dead!!
But anyway: Azina is teasing us again, haha
I can´t wait what happens in the next chapter...
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Post by azina on Oct 23, 2005 16:44:18 GMT -5
Thanks for the exalt and the feedback! And you're right I am being a tease. I'll answer what just happened in the second part of this chapter. Hopefully I'll have it up later to tonight after I finish my homework.
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Post by scotsrockgod on Oct 23, 2005 19:57:27 GMT -5
Playing catch up here, finally had time to give this a read. I posted comments on the first 2 chapters on ff.net (under ACleverName). All of this very well-written and the pacing is good. Keeping us on our toes! As for Ch. 3: I like the fact that Scarecrow is trying to get Crane to use the toxin on Emily-- that it would be the key to having her "mind, body, and soul." Scarecrow is zeroing in on Crane's need to possess her, and it makes for very good reading. Also, I don't know if anyone has yet postulated the schizophrenia, but I really like that idea. It makes a lot of sense, especially with the way you've written this. Another layer, and it's awesome. As for Ch. 4: For a thug, Jimmy is awfully observant -- assuming Emily is Crane's girlfriend and that he wants to "get her in the sack." I had to chuckle a bit at that part. I maintain, in my own twisted mind, that the Crane we are constructing (we, being the BB screenwriter and the fan fic writers) has a lot in common with one of my favorite characters, the Phantom of the Opera. Case in point: "It had been so long since Crane had been touched by anyone lovingly." This tugged at my heartstrings. The lack of genuine love in Crane's life hasn't helped his mental condition at all. Same for Erik. I love it!! Oh, and the kiss was just hawt. Ch. 5: All I can say is, oh, what a wicked tease you are! I really enjoyed reading this, Azina, and I'm looking forward to more.
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Post by azina on Oct 23, 2005 21:51:30 GMT -5
Please excuse typos. I made the mistake of taking anti-migraine meds before writing this so I was a little doped.
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Post by scotsrockgod on Oct 23, 2005 22:10:02 GMT -5
Niiiice. I really like the imagery of the dark room and Scarecrow almost being 'caught' by Steven. "I am a failure in some respects, Steven I am." Enter Rachel. Oooh.
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Post by fosforito on Oct 23, 2005 23:04:21 GMT -5
Oh Azina, this was a great chapter again! I was really expecting Jonathan would be hurt by the gunshot like being grazed by the bullet (*sighs after knowing that he didn´t get hurt*) but I knew Jon wouldn´t be dead (yesssss ) Good how you bring Westmeyer in now (hey: he amlost catched Scarecrow - wow!) and a fantastic tie to Jon´s mom!! I wondered after reading SOTM and now Midnight Dawn what happened to his mother in the meantime. Ohhh, Jonathan must feel so much guilt for not being able to help his mom. Poor Jonathan Oh, and now Rachel comes in... I´m curious what will happen now. Azina, will you tie your story with the plot of BB somehow? Are we somewhere in the movie now, especially when the scenes are dealing with Rachel and Crane at the same time? Anyway: very good chapter!!!!
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Post by azina on Oct 24, 2005 5:31:29 GMT -5
Oh Azina, this was a great chapter again! I was really expecting Jonathan would be hurt by the gunshot like being grazed by the bullet (*sighs after knowing that he didn´t get hurt*) but I knew Jon wouldn´t be dead (yesssss ) I was thinking about him being grazed, but for what I have planned coming up, that wouldn't work, so I decided that when the gas hit him in the face, Syler flinched when he shot at Crane so his aim was off. I thought it was important to bring her back up again and also to show where she was in her mental health because of course this will undermine Jonathan's confidence in himself. He can't say any longer it's Gooding's fault anymore. To be answered in the next chapter ... Thanks! I worried it was rushed. Did you get that impression?
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Post by azina on Oct 24, 2005 19:14:25 GMT -5
Playing catch up here, finally had time to give this a read. I posted comments on the first 2 chapters on ff.net (under ACleverName). Thanks so much for the reviews! I really appreciate them. I was a little stunned at some of the similaries Crane has to some classic symptoms schizophrenics have and when they first develop these symptoms ... and I wrote some of this before I visited their website. I formulated early on that Crane is physically and emotionally starved for love and he refocusses the normal sexual energy to deviant behaviors (i.e. getting gratification/enjoyment from fear via Scarecrow). And yes, I wouldn't mind making some Music of the Night with Jonathan Crane or the recent Phantom of the Opera Erik ... very nice.
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Post by scotsrockgod on Oct 24, 2005 20:21:24 GMT -5
And yes, I wouldn't mind making some Music of the Night with Jonathan Crane or the recent Phantom of the Opera Erik ... very nice. You rock, Azina! And ditto, on all counts. *dissipates into puddle of goo* Now I have a question for you: when I read wikipedia's definition of sadism, it stipulated that it began as a condition in which the sadist was getting sexual pleasure from others' pain. Now it says that such a definition is not strictly true, that it can be any kind of gratification and not necessarily sexual. Are you saying here that for your Crane, he's a sadist in the original sense? Please keep those chapters coming.
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Post by azina on Oct 24, 2005 20:37:36 GMT -5
And yes, I wouldn't mind making some Music of the Night with Jonathan Crane or the recent Phantom of the Opera Erik ... very nice. You rock, Azina! And ditto, on all counts. *dissipates into puddle of goo* Now I have a question for you: when I read wikipedia's definition of sadism, it stipulated that it began as a condition in which the sadist was getting sexual pleasure from others' pain. Now it says that such a definition is not strictly true, that it can be any kind of gratification and not necessarily sexual. Are you saying here that for your Crane, he's a sadist in the original sense? Please keep those chapters coming. And the actor who played Erik was Scottish! Mmmmm. What is it with me and the Scots and Irish? But on to the serious stuff ... I never saw my Crane as a sadist ... Scarecrow is the sadist in that definition. If you notice he's always the one clamoring and craving the pain and fear. Crane at this stage is trying to cure and is very misguided in his treatments and as you see he is becoming very unbalanced himself. So I guess I gave you two answers, one for each of Jonathan's personalities.
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Post by fosforito on Oct 24, 2005 22:46:23 GMT -5
I have to second that !! I never saw your Crane as a sadist either.. same thing for my Crane ;-) It´s just the thing thet Scarecrow has such a big influence on Jon, he´s manipulating him all the time and somehow he can manage to get control over him in the most important moments of Jonathan´s life, what is sometimes positive (e.g. the "treatment of Snake Marciano in SOTM or now Syler) but also negative (e.g. the treatment of Jon´s mom) So it´s always a fight between Scarecrow and Jon and depends on what happens in his life either the one or the other has "control" then. But on to the serious stuff ... I never saw my Crane as a sadist ... Scarecrow is the sadist in that definition. If you notice he's always the one clamoring and craving the pain and fear. Crane at this stage is trying to cure and is very misguided in his treatments and as you see he is becoming very unbalanced himself. So I guess I gave you two answers, one for each of Jonathan's personalities.
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Post by scotsrockgod on Oct 26, 2005 8:19:24 GMT -5
And the actor who played Erik was Scottish! Mmmmm. What is it with me and the Scots and Irish? Yup, Gerard Butler ... *points to sig* His accent is teh sex. Anyway ... Well, thank you for answering my question. I like that you say he's misguided and becoming very unbalanced, rather than sadistic. Definitely lending more depth to the character. Now, here's another thing that was floating around in my head. Yesterday in my Milton class we were discussing the fact that Milton had an obsession with the theme of maturation. He was fixated on the act of growing up. He got called "the Lady of Christ College" at Cambridge because he was "preserving his chastity." My teacher seems to think it probable that he was a virgin up until his marriage at age 34. Now, in terms of Crane ... in your fic, Azina, he doesn't get his first kiss until ... well, I'm not sure how old he is, but he's definitely into adulthood. I know in others it happens a bit earlier (Fosforito's for example). So do you think your Crane is, by virtue of all the abuse he suffered as a child, having a hard time growing up? The general idea we all seem to be getting to in our fics is that while, on the outside, he seems to be a very successful man--the job, the wealth, the high profile--inside he has not yet quite matured. Matured, in the sense that my Milton teacher was talking about--one of the rites of maturation is losing virginity. Did that make any sense? I was trying to decipher my notes because I was sitting in class thinking, "ooh, ooh, this fits Crane."
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Post by azina on Oct 26, 2005 20:16:05 GMT -5
And the actor who played Erik was Scottish! Mmmmm. What is it with me and the Scots and Irish? Yup, Gerard Butler ... *points to sig* His accent is teh sex. Anyway ... Well, thank you for answering my question. I like that you say he's misguided and becoming very unbalanced, rather than sadistic. Definitely lending more depth to the character. Now, here's another thing that was floating around in my head. Yesterday in my Milton class we were discussing the fact that Milton had an obsession with the theme of maturation. He was fixated on the act of growing up. He got called "the Lady of Christ College" at Cambridge because he was "preserving his chastity." My teacher seems to think it probable that he was a virgin up until his marriage at age 34. Now, in terms of Crane ... in your fic, Azina, he doesn't get his first kiss until ... well, I'm not sure how old he is, but he's definitely into adulthood. I know in others it happens a bit earlier (Fosforito's for example). So do you think your Crane is, by virtue of all the abuse he suffered as a child, having a hard time growing up? The general idea we all seem to be getting to in our fics is that while, on the outside, he seems to be a very successful man--the job, the wealth, the high profile--inside he has not yet quite matured. Matured, in the sense that my Milton teacher was talking about--one of the rites of maturation is losing virginity. Did that make any sense? I was trying to decipher my notes because I was sitting in class thinking, "ooh, ooh, this fits Crane." Wow, that's a very interesting interpretation! I never thought of that. I get so much out of getting reader's input into this story. Well, I leave this always to interpretation, but remember, Crane may or may not have had sexual relationships before Emily. He just was probably pining for her in some way as his first crush and idealized her in some way in his mind. So Crane might be a virgin or he might not ... again, I leave that to your interpretation. But he is maturing and growing. Emily is opening a newer and in some ways a more painful side to himself.
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Post by scotsrockgod on Oct 26, 2005 21:00:15 GMT -5
He just was probably pining for her in some way as his first crush and idealized her in some way in his mind. So Crane might be a virgin or he might not ... again, I leave that to your interpretation. But he is maturing and growing. Emily is opening a newer and in some ways a more painful side to himself. Ah yes, I was jumping to conclusions in my desire to bring in Milton. I guess I am too quick to equate Crane with Erik. In any case, I can't wait to read the next chapter.
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