Disco Pigs Movie Discussion

[prgmrgirl]

Hey everyone,

Saw Disco Pigs last night and was flabbergasted. That was one intense movie. I'd like to find out what you all thought of it. Specifically if any of you felt that Pig could have been saved.

I got the impression that Pig was somewhat autistic. He was very child-like and obviously had issues even when he was a kid. I can't help but wonder how much of his violence came from sexual frustration. He didn't become out of control until after he discovered his feelings for Runt. I don't think he was able to handle those feelings. What do you think would have happened if Runt had reciprocated when he kissed her? How would them becoming lovers have changed the course of the movie?

Also, I got the impression that the events happening in the order they did was a huge factor in the outcome. Of all the times, her parents decided to send her away when he needed her most. If she hadn't been sent away, would things have escalated as they did? I have a feeling they would have worked out the changes in their friendship eventually, whether by getting over it or by giving in to it. Instead, they were pulled apart during a time that was very crucial to them emotionally in their relationship. What do you guys think?

[azina]

Okay, I'm finally going to get around to posting to this. I wanted to put some thought into this. If I remember Pig did exhibit some violent tendencies even when Runt was around (the initial hitting of the counter boy in the alcohol shop and the beating up of that boy in the dance club before Pig kissed Runt in the alley a few moments later).

It seems like Pig's character was beginning to spiral out of control, but it was only accelerated by the twin crisis of romantic rejection by the sole person his whole universe orbited around and that one person suddenly disappearing just at his sexual awakening of feelings toward Runt were emerging.

I think the main difficulty I see is how the characters begin to interact with the world outside their self-made universe. You begin to see Runt make friends and take interest in other people other than Pig, whereas Pig seems stuck and can't reconcile his self-made universe with Runt with the outside world. The outside world is just an intrusion, an obstacle to them becoming King and Queen of the Palace. I really don't know what kind of a future Pig could have because the only growth he showed was in escalating aggression toward others, culminating in that horrific scene in the dance club.

I wonder if this is making sense? Anyway, what Runt did at the end to Pig I saw as an ultimate act of love and sacrifice as much as it broke my heart as I'm sure it broke hers. What kind of future would there have been for Pig? He would have ended up in jail or maybe an institution and life without Runt would be a living death for him.

[prgmrgirl]

Thanks for the reply. After seeing the movie, I was really dying to talk about it.

It seemed to me that Pig had a (albeit) limited capacity for change. Remember when he finds Runt and is so proud of the fact that he got there "by himself"? Also, when they escape from the institution, he is excitedly telling her how things are going to change, and his newfound joy at being able to talk to people. If you recall in the beginning, he couldn't do that hardly at all. Also keep in mind that the scene where he beats up the kid in the disco right before he kisses her is *because* of his feelings for her. I don't think he understood what he was feeling until after he tried to kiss her. But the way he watched her before the attack. I noticed that he kept turning away from her like he was confused, like he was trying to stop looking at her "that way".

Though I agree the capacity for violence was definitely there before (ie, the scene in the liquer store) but it can also be said of Runt since she laughed and did nothing. I think Runt, if she had been emotionally capable of helping him would have, but she wasn't and she tried to help him the only way she could (at the end). I agree that she did him a favor. It was an act of love. It totally broke my heart.

[azina]

It is tragic ... things could have turned out differently otherwise if there were other changes here or there. Pig's family seemed quite distant from him when he was going through the turmoil and the only help he received was his mother telling him the town Runt was and maybe the limited funds for transportation. There seemed to be a huge network of disconnect not just from Runt and Pig from the world but their respective families from them (ie abusive father, distant parents).

I admit I was amazed Runt didn't stop Pig from smashing up the store. I was like "Stop him! Do something!" Unfortunately she was still immature too. Maybe I'm not giving Pig enough credit for potential growth, but in the end it almost played out like a Shakespearean "Romeo and Juliet" tragedy didn't it?

I wonder if Pig had time to work out his feeling with Runt near him and perhaps growing to love him in a romantic way his feelings would turn from less aggression when he felt he wasn't in jeopardy of losing Runt? When I think of it, the key violence toward the end of the film was after he underwent the trauma of Runt being ripped from him and he is terrified of losing her again. You can see his agony in the bathroom scene ... then he returns and sees her dancing with someone else. Gee, I'm rambling again.

[kahlan]

I just saw the movie yesterday, and I totally agree what you both say. I was just wondering, what's Runt going to do after she kills him? When I was watching, I tought she was going to commit suicide...

[azina]

I was wondering about that, but then I thought the director left that open to ambiguity because you don't actually see her walking into the sea. In fact before it fades to black you see her stepping to the side, presumably down the beach instead of into the ocean. I watched that scene last night and saw something I didn't see the first time, that Pig accepted and encouraged his death. The first time what she did came as too much of a shock to me for me to see this.

[prgmrgirl]

Yeah, at the end if you listen close you can hear them talking about it. Something like:

Runt: Then what?

Pig: Then you just walk away.

The other reason I think he was savable was at the end, when he finally felt like he had her close to him again, he seemed quite reasonable and lucid. He understood that he had lost her, that she *had* to move on, and so he decided that since he didn't *want* to move on, it would be easier for him to die.

That bathroom scene was very necessary for the viewer to understand what he did. There had never been awkwardness before between them. Suddenly,as he sat there with her, all he could say was "Happy Birthday." Then he goes into the bathroom and has a mental/emotional breakdown. When he looks in the mirror he says to himself "She's all you got. Don't let me down, Pig." Then he comes out and sees her looking at this other guy like he needs her to look at HIM. He snaps. Without that scene in the bathroom, I would have thought he over-reacted. But seeing him tormented in that bathroom (he really did a great job of expressing his anguish), you understood what this meant to Pig. This was, quite simply, the end of his world.

Wow, what a great movie that it could make people really think about it for days afterward. He's a fabulous actor.

[azina]

Yes, Cillian did do an incredible job. I envy those people who could see him when it was on stage. Could you imagine the energy he must have brought to the performance when it was live? I bet there wasn't a dry eye in the audience by the end.

I was wondering, by the end, do you think Runt romantically loved Pig or that she made love to him because she knew that would be their last time together? I saw it more out of compassion for Pig than passion for him.

[prgmrgirl]

I agree. I would have loved to have seen him in the play. No wonder it did so well.

I also agree with the fact that Runt made love to him out of compassion, though she did love him, but not the way he needed her to love him. I wonder if she could have loved him romantically? She seemed horrified when he kissed her. I think she thought of him completely as a brother and in no way had romantic interest in him. (I know it's hard for us rabid fans to imagine anyone not thinking romantically of him. )

To her, it would have been like making out with her brother.

In the end, when she had decided to do as he asked (kill him), giving him that one last gift was all she could do.

It still breaks my heart.....

I keep thinking "What if? What if?" Can you imagine what would have happened if she had felt the same about him as he did for her? How do you think it would have changed the movie?

[azina]

Gee, that is the million dollar question, isn't it? I'm thinking though, would that have changed things because of their parents? If they stayed together it probably would have made a world of difference. It probably would have made a difference if they stayed together even if the events played as they currently did (Runt didn't feel romantically toward Pig). I think the fact the parents ripped Runt away so suddenly from Pig, whether she reciprocated his feelings or not, set into motion the tragic sequence of events for Pig. What would be interesting would be how Runt's reaction to his kiss would affect the way he dealt with her departure. If she loved him back romantically it probably would illicit a knee-jerk response of another sort from Pig, but either way he would be traumatized and may act more violently(?). Not only would he lose his soul mate but also the love of his life. It would be interesting to ask that question of Cillian who certainly has been inside Pig's head a lot more than us and his motivations.

[prgmrgirl]

I totally see what you mean about the responsibility of the parents in the whole thing. But ultimately, the murder was a direct result of Pig's love for Runt. IMO the violence kept escalating because Pig had no outlet for what he felt. If Runt had reciprocated, he would have had an outlet. He was willing to change, that was obvious from the things he said when they had escaped the institution. He even mentioned marriage! I strongly believe that with Runt's help, he could have eventually "grown up." But Runt was too dizzy with everything that was happening, and too immature herself, to be able to reach out to him. Plus, she could not help that she thought of him as a brother. How does that song go? "I can't make you love me if you don't."

I think a lot of it hinged on her feelings for him. If she had loved him romantically, Pig would still have gone after her when they sent her away but he wouldn't have felt that he was losing her emotionally, which seemed to be the reason for the violence. The farther away she got, emotionally, the more desperate he got. They would have probably reunited and run away together, maybe got married.

My husband made a good point though: Runt would have had to "carry" him emotionally for a long time until he learned to interact properly in society. Would she have gotten tired of it eventually? How would he have reacted to her having to go to work, for example? Would he have viewed it that work was "taking her away?" I would imagine it would be like taking care of an autistic person. I think he could eventually learn, albeit in a limited way, to take care of himself, etc. But it would have been a struggle for Runt. She would have to take the lead, show him, teach him, reassure him, take care of him, until he felt comfortable, until he could do it for himself. Not many people are cut out for that kind of constant reassurance, constant care.

I would be fascinated to know what Cillian thinks would have happened, too. He would be the one to really know.

[azina]

Now it makes me wonder, do you think Pig realized near the end what a burden he'd be to Runt? Do you think he saw his death as also a gift to her so she might move on with her life without having to worry about him? Do you think he was under the impression she'd kill herself too? Sheesh, all these questions!

[prgmrgirl]

It's possible that he did. At that stage of the game, though, it was too late. He was going to jail or at the very least would be institutionalized. He had lost her and he knew it. There was, for him, no hope at that point.

I think he knew it would be worse to continue living. A living death, as you so accurately phrased it.

This is what good movies do, they make you think, wonder, ask. They make you discuss and examine your beliefs and morals.

I just want to say that I am really impressed with the quality of fans here. All of you seem bright, friendly, and not above a girly squeal now and then...

You guys rock!

[azina]

Why thank you! : ) I've really enjoyed this discussion. I love drooling, but I also love talking about his movies and its themes. It really helps bouncing ideas off of someone else. I must tell you with "Disco Pigs" when I first saw it I had such a gut reaction of "I hate this movie!" partly because it was so sad at the end and I had hoped for happiness for the two characters. Now that I've had time to digest it and discuss I realize what an excellent movie it is and of course great acting on the part of Cillian who brought Pig to life in an amazing way.

Let me know if you've seen "On the Edge" yet. I think you'd really like that too and I'm dying to discuss some of the themes in that too.

[prgmrgirl]

"On the Edge" will be the next one. I also want to see "Girl with the Pearl Earring." As soon as I see them, I will start a new thread.

I had a real knee-jerk reaction to Disco Pigs, too, which is what made me really think about it. It pulls you so much into their world that when their world falls apart you get this awful wrench; you really feel it, you know? I try to separate hating something about a movie and hating the movie itself. Of course, I'm one of those people who examines things to death. I love to wonder "what if?" It's the scientist in me. ;D

The main criteria for me as far as whether I like a movie or not is whether it leaves me wondering, thinking about could have happened or why things happened in that particular way. Same thing with books. If it leaves me thinking, it usually means I like it (even if I don't know it or admit! )